On this episode of The Ephesiology Podcast, Andrew and Michael are joined by Brad Brisco, missional strategist and leading voice in co-vocational church planting. Brad shares insights from decades of experience mobilizing church planters, and why the growing reality of co-vocational leadership is not just a necessity—but a strategic, theological return to how the early church engaged in mission. From surviving hurricanes on Florida’s Gulf Coast to reshaping church planting frameworks globally, Brad’s journey highlights the deep missiological significance of ordinary Christians living as missionary people in the marketplace. This episode isn’t just for planters or pastors—it’s for anyone wondering how the life, death, resurrection, and teachings of Jesus shape the church’s call to incarnate the gospel in every neighborhood, workplace, and street.
Show Notes
Key Topics Covered
- The difference between bi-vocational and co-vocational ministry
- Why missionary engagement needs to begin in the marketplace
- How shared leadership and APEST gifting activate the full body of Christ
- Theological foundations: Missio Dei, incarnational mission, and missionary identity
- Cultural shifts and why the North American church must recalibrate
- Resources for those exploring or currently living co-vocational ministry
Quotes from the Episode
“If God is a missionary God—and He is—then we as His people are missionary people.” – Brad Brisco
“Co-vocational isn’t a model—it’s a missiological strategy.” – Brad Brisco
“We need to diminish the clergy-laity divide and activate the whole body in mission.” – Brad Brisco
“Jesus came not to plant a church, but to live as a person among people. That’s our model.” – Michael T. Cooper
“The incarnation impacts everything—not just what we believe, but how we live and love.” – Andrew Johnson
Resources Mentioned
- Explore resources from Brad Brisco at CoVoChurchPlanting.com
- Ephesiology Masterclasses – Online courses exploring missiology, theology, and church planting (masterclasses.ephesiology.com)
Connect With Us
- Follow Ephesiology: Website | Twitter | Instagram
- Follow Andrew Johnson @thediscfan.bsky.social
If this episode encouraged you, please leave a review and share it with others exploring missional living in post-Christian contexts. Thanks for doing theology in community with us today!
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Our Podcasters
Michael is the missiologist in residence with East West where he focuses on equipping and empowering church leaders in evangelism, discipleship, leadership, and catalyzing church planting movements in the most difficult to reach places on the planet. He is the author of Ephesiology: The Study of the Ephesian Movement as well as many other books and academic articles. He has lectured at universities around the world and serves as affiliate faculty at Kairos University where he facilitates the degree programs in partnership with Ephesiology Master Classes.
Andrew is a proud husband, father and pastor who desires all to know the one true King. He is honored to serve at West Village Church in Victoria, BC. Previously, he’s ministered in Houston, Chicago, Indy, Flagstaff and Tempe in a variety of church contexts. Andrew has a BA in Christian Ministry from Trinity International University and an MA from Phoenix Seminary. He is currently a Doctor of Ministry student at Kairos University and is the co-host of the Ephesiology Podcast. When not at work, he’s an avid disc golfing, vinyl playing, Spider-Man following/collecting fellow. Go Pacers.
Matt Till has woven together roles as pastor, professor, podcaster, and Emmy Award–winning writer and producer. With over 25 years in ministry—including church planting, higher education and administration, and co-hosting the Ephesiology podcast—he has dedicated his life to engaging people and communities with compassion, justice, and inclusion. Today, as Senior Director for Social Justice and Community Engagement at TelosGO, Matt continues that calling. He and his wife are raising three children in South Florida, where he can often be found reading on the beach, sipping Cuban coffee, or savoring lechón asado with yuca con mojo.
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Imagine a world where passionate, equipped Christian leaders spread God’s Word in areas with the greatest need—leaders grounded in both deep theology and practical ministry skills, trained to make a lasting impact in their communities. Through your support, this vision can become a reality for students from countries like Malawi, Tanzania, Kenya, Nepal, and India who are eager to teach and multiply disciple-makers in their own regions.
Ephesiology: A Study of the Ephesian Movement
If you want to understand principles for the growth of Christianity in the first century, the place to begin is the city of Ephesus. In this winsome study, Ephesiology offers readers a comprehensive view of the empowering work of the Holy Spirit in the most significant city of the New Testament, and compels us to ask the question: how can we effectively connect Christ to our culture?
“Masterfully handling the book of Ephesians and using its content as a definitive guide, Michael Cooper lays a theologically strong foundation that is both corrective and directive to disciple making movements. The principles he gleans from the book of Ephesians and related texts, help to ensure the on-going multiplication and maturation of a movement. Because these are supra-cultural principles, they are applicable anywhere in the world.”
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